一耳朵听感QB-9, Bel Canto Dac3 以及Wadia 381CDP

designest

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一耳朵听感QB-9, Bel Canto Dac3 以及Wadia 381CDP
一直在寻求好的电脑音频的解决之道，最早使用Indigo IO，到M-audio transit（USB2SPDIF）+Benchmark DAC1（无USB）到Bel Canto DAC3， 对DAC3还是满意的，一直使用了有一年多。但发烧友（或者说人）总是不满足的。直到Ayre QB-9的出现，其采用的技术（异步USB）和设计理念-专物专用，都颇和我胃口，给Ayre的代理发了邮件问了一下，知道旺角show room有样机和现货，于是周末抽空去了一趟。其实本来也并没有试机比较的想法，想大概听一耳朵就好（其实内心已经决定要买了），店员到是满热情找了一张香港2009视听展的CD和一部Thinkpad开始做demo，相信USB DAC对所有传统器材销售商来说都是新鲜事物，Thinkpad上使用的软件只是itunes，文件也是itunes抓轨的，问店员也不知道是AAC（有损）还是AIFF（无损），可以说毫无经验，要知道Ayre建议用家一定不要让PC处理音频文件的输出，就是说要给QB-9输入最原始bit的文件流，原始是44的就不要让电脑升频去96什么的。比较使用的CDP是Wadia最新的381CDP（人民币5～6万），值得一提的是这部CDP也有USB输入，并且可以播放FLAC！可以说是一部CD+电脑音频的发烧利器。381是一部纯CD播放机，无法播放SACD，所以可以确定比较时候所播放的是CD格式。试听的前级是Ayre的K-1xe（US$8600，合人民币6～7万），后级没有看清楚，应该是V-1xe（US$13XXX，合人民币10万多），扬声器是Vienna Acoustics 的 Concert Grand系列旗舰产品-BEETHOVEN（标价是港币38K），现场所用线材电处没有细看，值得一提就是CDP和QB-9都是平衡接入前级。





因为赶时间，只试听了视听展的CD上的两曲，第一首是王菲的《约定》粤语版，录音由雨果的老易做特别的母盘处理，自称是最“靓声”的王菲录音。先开声的是381 CDP，开声的一刻我就好像被打了一支强力的吗啡，不！应该说是最纯的冰毒！系统展现出来的声场绝佳，两端延伸高不见顶，深不见底，厚度合适，能量感平衡，形体感及其强烈，空气感一流，扬声器摆位较靠前，所展现出来的舞台好像完全脱离了喇叭而自称系统，而喇叭似乎挡住了你看见这个舞台的视线！按部就班，系统体现出的稳定感让我想到的就是这个词语。一流的细节让我听到了一个完全不同的更高规格的王菲，这些细节将王菲演唱中的技巧完美的展现出来，一些转音鼻音的魅力完全体现出来，王菲那种深刻而不泛滥的感情在这个系统的演绎下，几乎没有任何缺陷和遗憾。如果硬要挑毛病的话就是低频的能量感稍多了一点点，播流行歌曲的时候稍过“权威”了一些。不过这种权威在接下来的曲目中就变成了一种绝对优势，这首曲子是俄罗斯作曲家谢德林改编自比才作品的《卡门组曲》，因为他特别写给弦乐组，定音鼓和四组敲击乐来演奏，但却没有任何铜管乐和木管乐的份，饶是如此，音乐的其实与能量感依然刺激澎湃，想不到柏尼夫的指挥功力完全不亚于他的钢琴功架，把《卡门组曲》演绎的极富娱乐性，声音细致激情，令人听得兴奋（以上摘自CD介绍）。这首曲目有一次展现了系统超卓的声场和坚如磐石的定位，电光火石之间有充斥着细腻和控制，觉无粗糙的质感，定音鼓的骤然切入展现了系统一流的瞬态，在如此系统下齐奏的弦乐组让人可以清楚的感觉到其规模，一流的结像！也许我挺过的好系统还不够多，但这套系统HI-FI性和音乐性高度的结合让人感慨“夫复何求！”。店员再三给我打预防针，不要对QB-9抱有太大的期望，毕竟是一个“方便”但不是一个“最发烧”的方案，看QB-9和381将近3倍的价格差异和8倍的体积差别，我心里有数这不是一个规范的对比，不过我还是好奇QB-9在这样系统上的表现。毫无悬念，QB-9的表现可以说被381甩出去3～4条街，整套系统从刚才的HI-END范儿变成了初级HI-FI范儿，任何一方面都差很远，让我无心听下去，可以说QB-9发出了令我“尴尬”的声音，我知道有很多因素，最大的问题可能在于itunes和抓轨文件，还有可能是煲机的问题，毕竟381是一直在开声的，而QB-9很少做DEMO。
不管这么多了，付钱将QB-9请回家了，按照Ayre网站的指引做了软件上的设置，并和DAC3做了简单的对比（毕竟还没有煲开）。我使用的是8PR+德律风格ECC82管+HD650，QB-9的细节是惊人的，而且改善了一个我一直郁郁与怀的问题，就是声音的细腻程度，相较之下DAC3是有一点点粗声的。还有就是韵味，Ayre极其透明但是又有韵味的感觉我不知道怎么形容，这又一点象王菲最新的演唱，不是通过大红大绿黑白分明的强烈对比去增加感染力和对比度（DAC3有这种倾向），而是在一个相对窄的频宽里面去增加层次以增强感染力，喜欢摄影的筒子应该知道我在说什么。初步还是很喜欢QB-9的，详细感受等以后再说。谢谢观赏。


[ 本帖最后由 designest 于 2010-3-1 11:59 编辑 ]

x-w

是否可以说素质上dac3-qb9声音是升级的？对艺雅的声音比较熟悉，个人并不是特别喜欢轻量、细腻的的声音

x-w

me2...

shangzhu

阅~

frui

用WIN7和VISTA，然后用KS驱动，声音会有很大提升。
在XP下KS不能用。所谓的ASIO4ALL是假的ASIO，没有意义。

小白

再加上: 应该用SAW Studio级别专业播放软件.    电脑尽量用Alienware.   QB9适合喜欢折腾和设置者,电脑软硬件环境都会影响音质. 懒汉可玩Linn DS或Squeezebox.

1001006

不错，这三个俺也都听过，不过是在耳机系统下。只是耳机系统下，381同QB9没有LZ描述得差距这么大。个人也是觉得DAC3不够细腻，信息量相比DAC1没有明显提高

x-w

那两者基本素质呢？

designest

原帖由 x-w 于 2010-3-1 13:36 发表
那两者基本素质呢？

还未煲开，不能乱下结论。

x-w

我猜是半斤对八两，走向不同，arye的声音整体完成度更好
到时等您的听感吧，请pm谢谢

yamuling

我也想了解下QB9的听感

fsscn

楼主现场受到如此大冲击照样败回家的精神也是值得肯定的

designest

原帖由 x-w 于 2010-3-1 12:18 发表
是否可以说素质上dac3-qb9声音是升级的？对艺雅的声音比较熟悉，个人并不是特别喜欢轻量、细腻的的声音

回家听煲了一天的qb-9，绝对焕然一新的感觉，不是轻量但是细腻的声音，所以害怕不够厚声的大可以放心。
这里转贴一篇E文评测，
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Ayre-Acoustics-QB-9-Asynchronous-USB-DAC-Review

Have Weiss and QB9 in the house

          Chris, thanks very much!
I have listened to a not fully broken in QB9 and a full broken in Weiss for the last couple of days.
Interesting enough I have the same impression regarding bass with QB9.Although it did matter quite a bit, what kind of power cord I am using.With some power cords especially the transient response of e.g. anacoustic bass was much better than with others. These cables tend tosound a bit leaner. But my conclusion is, that it has to do a lot withroomacoustics.
I listened to the weiss now, for almost 10 days. The Minerva is awonderful piece of gear and I was about to pull the trigger but thengot the chance to audition the qb9...
In my system (Macbook Pro, Amarra, (Weiss and QB9), HMS and lesslossPowerCables and XLR Cables, ADAM AUdio active speakers) using thevolume control of Amarra (The weiss volume control seems to be a bitmore dynamic than Amarra) the weiss produces a very analog soundingpicture. Even not so good ambiences are produced very listenable,Instruments are in Place, Voices stand right between my speakers, thesound is involving and it never is unnerving. That is with 16bit 44,1khz. What really makes the weiss sing is Material at highsamplingrates. All the samples on this site were used and the usealsuspects vom HRX. Wow. But allthough most of the material used isbrandnew I had the impression, that it sounded just a bit too analoguealmost old????. In direct comparisson to analouge (Technics and TWAcustic Raven) my turntables sound a bit more alive. Nevertheless, theweiss unit is among the best Digital I have ever listened to (I haventlistened to all the ultraexpensive gear except the top of the lineMeridian and Soolos Music Server, Krell CD Player, Audionet).
When I introduced the QB9 in my system, I had plenty of detail, plentyof room, very accurate pinpoint imaging, but very analytical sound.This improved after I gave the unit 24 Hours of Isotek burn in coupledwith classic, rock and pop CDs in constant rotation - I thought, "goodresolution but without the emotional quality of the weiss. More burningin. Then yesterday evening, after about 72 hours of putting constantmusic on it, I sat down for another critical listening session. Thefirst record I spun was Anna Netrebko "Souvenirs" Requiem - Pie Jesu.Actually I am not a classical fan and listen mostly to electronic musicand jazz, but I have an idea how classical music should sound. Well itdid sound the way I wanted it to sound. Those who know the record andhave heard it on different systems might know that it can sound a bitcheezy, but it has orchestra and a choir in the background and it isquite a challenging task to seperate everything in the right way. Idiscovered that everything is in the right place. But not at firstlisten. I was actually overwhelmed by the emotional quality ofNetrebkos Interpretation. Goose bumps. A fellow audiophile and soundengineer who stopped by to "help me with my decision" (of course!) satthere with his mouth wide open. His first comment: How much is it? Hissecond: Thats a nobrainer? His third: I would very much like to listento this unit in my system. His 4th: Damn, I need this record. After helistened to some records he is familiar with, he said, he really needsto listen to the qb9 in his system. He has a wadia! We played a wholevariety of records including Bjork, Miles Davis, Chet Baker, some moreclassical music, audiophile female voices (Sara K and the likes), Zero7, Roger Waters, ...
Same results! Spectactular! And what is most important. Not at alltiring. I could listen to very high volumes and then turn it down andstill everything had weigth, the correct size, plenty of details Inever knew existed in some old but familiar recordings.
Than we compared to the weiss. I was completely shocked at thedifference. In my system and to my ears the difference is huge. Huge Okbut which one is better? I vote clearly for the qb9, my friend said thesame.
But what are the differences. Compared to the QB9 the weiss seemedrather veiled (is that the correct english term?) If the QB9 has 100%resolution, than the Minerva has about 85% (For the first time I couldunderstand what e.g. Maria Callas was actually singing!!!) The onlything I really liked better with the weiss, was the integration of bassin the overall picture. The best word to discribe it, is balanced orround. With the QB9 I sometimes missed some extension in the hights(maybe the MP Filter?) and the already described mushier bass (goodword Chris). I listened to some records where I could not follow thebasslines. I have not tried to fiddle with the placement of my speakersand have not tried using eq (It cost me weeks to find the "perfect"placement for my speakers which gave me the most musical pleasure withmy analogue rig). in another post I was informed that break in mighttake up to 300 hours. I looked in the manual and it says 100-500 hours.So maybe bass will become more defined. But nevertheless I orderd aunit last night.
Those of you having not listened to the qb9, do so. Especially whenyour in the market for a DAC. Please do so. Especially in the US. Iwill pay 2800 Euro. The Weiss DAC 2 costs 2300 Euro in Germany. TheMinerva about 3600 Euro. So for 2500 $ this seems to me like a bargain(thats 1700 Euro).
A week ago if someone would have asked me about the best digital gear,I would have answered The Weiss Minerva, today I say QB9.
By the way: without Amarra I preferred the Weiss. So maybe youshould listen to different players before making a decision. Anotherinteresting detail: Check the correct AC polarity of the QB9! Thedifference in my system was huge!!!! With wrong ac polarity the weissdefinetly sounded better! In Germany we just reverse the plug. If youcant hear the difference you can check with a voltmeter. Can you dothat with us plugs? (Maybe Mr. Hansen can chime in on this matter!)
All the best from Germany
Claudius
Charles Hansen - if you are listening - you did a marvelous job. I haveauditioned quite some expensive gear in the last couple of years(Mostly Speakers, Amplifiers and analogue). But this much soundqualityfor so little money. Wow I will now audition your preamplifiers!
The only thing lurking in the back of my mind is: How would the qb9compare to all the wavelength stuff? Well no chance in Germany.
__________________Amarra 1.2, I-Tunes, Mac-Mini (4GB) SSD, Transparent CablesUSB, Ayre QB-9, all PCs Lessloss Signature, HMS Sestetto, ADAM PencilMK2 (active)

这个德国佬居然说QB-9干掉了WEISS Minerva，夸张了一些。。。


         

x-w

呵呵有机会听一下去，对于qb9我还是建立在老cx7上的印象很可能不对，cx7是玩超高整体协调度的，也不是说轻量就是薄声，而是优雅举重若轻的气质，但这同样并不是每套系统上都适合的。新款mp的硬素质一定会更好

frui

楼主，这世界上所有关于QB9的听感，都在我这个帖子里：
http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/vie ... 9&highlight=qb9