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发表于 2008-12-27 14:33:41
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"HD650在高端音源和耳放的搭配上素质明显不如HD600. 这也是一个事实."
"HD650在高端音源和耳放的搭配上素质明显不如HD600. 这也是一个事实."
小白是用什么前端得出这个结论的?
下面的前端够好不好?(来自FRUI的旧帖)
弹药和军火：
- PPX3
- PPX3-6SN7
- PPX3 SLAM*
- PPX3-6SN7 SLAM* (w/ 6SN7 driver)
- PPX3-6SN7 SLAM* Balanced
- Singlepower Extreme (A new, December 2006, circuit topology housed in a PPX chassis, featuring 6080 or 5998 out-put tubes. Available to non-Head-Fi'ers January 15, 2007. With different SP socket adapters**, several other driver inputs are possible: 6SL7, 6188 and 6SU7GTY; with ECC type 1 adapter: the 12AT7, 12AU7, 5814, 5965, 6414, 6829, and 7062; with ECC type 2: the 6ES8, 6DJ8, 6922; 6DJ4, 6DJ8, ECC189, ECC88, E88CC and the Osram PCC88. Another SP adapter will allow for the 5687, ECC182 and the 7119. Another adapter for the 6CG7/6FQ7 and 6GU7, and yet another for the 6350 and 6463.)
- MPX3-6CG7
- MPX3
- MPX3 SLAM*
- Singlepower Extreme Platinum (An upgrade of SP Extreme with a Plitron transformer, Black Gate cathode capacitors and Black Gate power capacitors.)
- Supra
- Supra-X (one-off, R10 voiced, SS-chassis with some SDS features)
- Supra 392 (one-off, optimized for 6BX7GT and 6BL7GT out-put tubes)
- MPX3 SLAM* SE(The standard MPX3 SLAM SE includes both a method of adjustment for the plate voltage and the current biasing of the output tubes to get optimal driving conditions with tubes like 5687, 6SN7, 6BL7GT, 6BX7GT et cetera. The voltage is controlled by a switch. The bias is adjusted automatically in the circuit depending on the tube in place. A bias switch is optional. The gain socket is rebiased for higher current delivery than a standard MPX3. The MPX3 SLAM SE package includes a Supra transformer with some Supra power filtration features, stepped attentuator, some circuit adjustments, SLAM adaptors and Black Gate cathode capacitors.
- MPX3 Balanced (in a Supra chassis)
- Supra-XLR (balanced, one-box-chassis)
- Maestro ZR
- SDS i.e. Super Duper Supra (extensively upgraded Supra with significantly modified circuit topology)
- The Dragon (could be called a "SP Extreme SE-2". Exclusive (Extreme influenced) circuit with a two stage gain design and external PSU with two 20A transformers. The amp is housed in "SDS-T" boxes. Link.)
- Supra Extreme XLR (Two transformers. This first made has Black Gate output capacitors and the Multi Stage Filtration)
- SDS-T (with external tube-rectified PSU. Housed in two narrow and deep chassis)
- Maestro XLR (balanced in a one-box-chassis)
- Maestro Aurum XLR (Maestro-XLR with gold-plated chassis)
- ES-1 (Electrostatic tube amp. Balanced & single ended with external PSU)
- SDS XLR Accent (balanced with external PSU in two standard sized Maestro chassis)
- SDS XLR Accent T (balanced with illuminated-tube rectified PSU in two standard sized Maestro chassis)
- SDS XLR (balanced with external PSU. In two large Maestro chassis, extensive pre-amp functions and switch-able sound tuning options)
有点晕了吗？这林林总总的不是几个个耳房，而是同一耳房的几十个变种，我看了一个下午才搞清楚它们之间的关系。SINGLEPOWER电子管耳房，推HD650最厉害的神器，尤其是终极版本的SDS XLR，用两台SDS来推平衡版的HD650，能把HD650完全超越自身，发挥到难以令人至信的地步。
以下观点来自不同网友，但大多数基于SINGLEPOWER SDS及SINGLEPOWER SDS XLR之上的看法（也有一些是用其它耳房）
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" I think in a Singlepower balanced system the HD650/zu completely, totally, without a doubt is far superior to a 02/kgss system, Better (tighter & deeper) and stronger bass, not nearly as dark sounding, if not just as fast....close, better more focused soundstage. Lusher and more texured midrange. "
比STAX OMEGA 007 II全面胜出，在所有的方面。
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另一个人："This has also been my findings. After listening to the HD650/Zu with my SDS-XLR and then side by side with the Qualia, R10, and L3000 with a new maxed SDS-XLR, I have found the HD650 to be better than the Qualia, prefered sometimes balanced over the L3000 that was single ended. The balanced R10 is IMO the King. However with certain tunes I still prefer the balanced 650. I also rate the balanced 650 over the Stax 02, RS1, and K1000."
比QUALIA强，许多方面比L3000强，某些时候比R10强。比STAX 007 II, RS1, KK强。
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还有一个人："Having used the L3000 with the SDS and the 650/Zu through the SDS-XLR, I dont think the L3000 can compete on any level with the 650/Zu combo when run balanced(at least through the SDS-XLR)."
L3000在任何方面都无法与HD650竞争。
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又一个人："But when I heard the SDS-XLR (Hirsch's amp) with a balanced pair of HD650's at one of the Florida meets, the sonic picture was so clear and speaker-like, I was simply dumbfounded. About the only other headphone experience I've had that compares was my first encounter with the HE90/HEV90, where it just seemed like everything was right with the world. With the SDS-XLR, the difference between a pair of single ended HD650/Zu versus a balanced pair of HD650/Zu run out of the same amp was just night and day. As I recall, there may have been some volume matching that needed to be done, but even when you compared them at the same listening level, it wasn't a fair contest. In fact, it was hard to believe that you were listening to the same source/headphone/amp combo (or at least you're listening to half of the amp in single ended)."
听HD650的震撼宛如当年听大奥。一切都极度完美，
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还有人说："I rank them (hd650) head and shoulders above the following more costly phones I have heard or owned when used with a high end source and amp. All comparisons done with either SE or balanced Zu cable.
Grado PS-1
Grado RS-1
Grado HP2
AKG K1000
Senn. Baby "O"
The only fault I have found with the HD650 is with some amps they can be a little slow compared to some phones. The bass can loose a little control. The SDS fixes most of this...The SDS-XLR makes them as good as I think they can get. I would recommend a balanced source and amp to get the most out of the 650. I also like the PS-1 much more balanced. The RS-1 showed the least signs of improvment with my system between SE and balanced.
With out hearing the Orpheus, R10, or Qualia I would think they are probably the cream. Of all of the next level phones I like the HD650/Zu much more than any of them. Very detailed, very resolving, great headstage, musical, way above average headphone bass, comfy, they do vocals very good, and able to listen to them for hours without any fatigue.
他说，HD650远远超过如下耳机：
Grado PS-1
Grado RS-1
Grado HP2
AKG K1000
Senn. Baby "O"
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这个人的说法我难以相信："I gotta be honest I prefer the 650's+zu over the R-10's. I think the 650's+zu is IMO on par with the Rs-1's, it's just a matter of preference.
I mean Tom Hankings was happy enough with his 650's.
But I prefer the He60's over the 650 as the he60s fast attack rate is blistering. That was just using the hev70. But I am looking to partner it with the 007t as I feel some nice tube synergy as it has been suggested by other headfiers."
坦率地说，我喜欢HD650胜过R10。
但是HD650不如HE60
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还有这样的说法：
My impression is similar to Tom's. I had a pleasure of owning the HE-60 w/ HV-70 amp and imo, I prefer the HD-650 w/Zu and Single Power SDS amp more than the Baby O combo. The Baby O is slightly better only in midrange department, but everything else I prefer the HD-650 w/ Zu to the Baby O. The source is SACDmods Sony SCD-C555ES. To the HE-60 defense, I think the HV-70 was holding them back.
他本人拥有小奥，但是认为HD650更好，小奥只在中频领域微微胜出，其它方面则落败。不过，他认为这是小奥原配放大器的缺陷。
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再看看这哥们：
"The officially approved «high-end» headphones I've heard so far are: RS-1, PS-1, K 1000, Omega 2, SR-404. None has convinced me more than the HD 650. Now there are still Qualia, R10, HE 60, HE 90. I've heard the latter three and was impressed, but that was way too long ago. Since the R10 is «closed» (not my cup of tea) and the HE 90 unattainable, all that's left are the Qualia 010 and the HE 60 (at best available used). Not much choice. So I guess the HD 650 belongs to the high end. At least for me. "
他听过RS-1, PS-1, K 1000, Omega 2, SR-404.没有一个像HD650那样令人信服。
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继续，可别说tom hankins是个枪手哦："I've enjoyed the CD3000, HD600, Grado HP2, and AKG K1000 a bunch in the systems I have had them in. They all had good things to offer that to me made them special. They all had at least one thing that I thought they did better than the HD650. But the slight things they did better than the HD650 to my ears have not come close to the overall sonic quality the 650 has given me."
他喜欢CD3000, HD600, Grado HP2, and AKG K1000，它们都有各自的有点，而且都至少在某一方面胜过HD650，但是，这种某一单方面微小的胜出，与HD650在总体上的优异音质无法比拟。
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注意啊，狠的来了："Yeah, the core aspects of the sound play like this: HD 650s are the best dynamic headphones made today, at any price.
"Using the R10s in place of the Senns in this lineup: Shanling SCD-7200 SACD player>Emmeline HR-2>w/Cardas cable>Senn HD 650, I found virtually NO enhancements over the Senns. I've tried 3 R10s in this lineup in the past. Invited friends, many of whom are working pros in audio (thier clients include Springsteen, Diana Krall, etc.), to try 'em back-to-back with the Senns. We all agreed that the R10s are overpriced and overrated, and that the Senns were the best dynamic headphone investment one can make.
The R10s got plugged into Meridian SACD sources, amps from a Grace 901 to a Blockhead w/ SA's... still, virtually no improvement over the above system's results.
I know there are many folks to whom the R10s are the last word in dynamic headphones... let's just say that I ain't one of them."
That's from another thread, but it applies here, too. The HD 650 is more neutral, by any objective standard and by most SUBJECTIVE standards, than anything else out there. R10 and the Qualia are inferior, and this is from someone who's clocked quite a few hours on the Qualia, on several different 9+k systems, and who owns the HD 650 (plus Cardas), and who owned the R10s... as above, MANY working audio pros have agreed with me, some with notable surprise, that the HD 650s are the best all-around, most accurate, dynamic headphones available today, period. Unbalanced, this is true; on an all balanced system, it's all the more obvious (and how I listen to them every night)...
Hey, it's my opinion, but it's a well-founded one at least... "
hd650是世界上最好的动圈耳机，无论价位。
R10在如下配置上试听: Shanling SCD-7200 SACD player>Emmeline HR-2>w/Cardas cable>Senn HD 650。他听不出R10比HD650有任何提升。他一共试了3只R10，请了朋友，不少是专业音响人士（他们的主顾包括著名歌星斯普林斯汀等），他们一致认为，R10被夸大了，650是最好的动圈耳机。
R10 又被用在Meridian SACD 和amps from a Grace 901 及Blockhead，几乎没有任何提升。
HD650更中性，无论是从任何客观的还是主观的角度来说。R10和QUALIA比它差。这样评价的人拥有9K$的系统，拥有R10和HD650，听过几个小时的QUALIA。很多音响专业的从业人员也赞同这一点，不过他们也觉得非常吃惊。
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下面这一段专门献给粑粑，引自英国音响杂志：
Excerpt from UK hi-fi press review:
"The HD 650's are revelatory. Dropping into a review system which of late has seen Beyerdynamic's very tasty DT990's as well as various high resolution speakers, they immediately moved the whole resolution game up a level or five... The sound of these transducers is simply so convincing that you know, instinctively and at once, that you can trust it implicitly... The HD650 cannot make excuses for poor or flawed recordings. If it's there, you'll hear it and its up to you whether to concentrate on the technical minus or the musical plus when there's a conflict. When both are pluses, though, you'll hear more of your music collection than you knew you had. This is high fidelity in its truest form."
"One of the most impressive hi-fi experiences we've had in a while, with a worryingly substantial advance in what we had regarded as 'high resolution' sound quality. Does far more than make headphones acceptable for late nights."
提到了DT990：HD 650比DT990在解析力方面提高了整整一个档次，甚至是五个档次。
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与CD3000的比较：In terms of actual detail levels presented by the two headphones, I'd have to say I feel that the HD650 is the more detailed headphone. It is pretty obvious to me that I can hear more detail in a mix without trying than I can the CD3000. When listening again its clear that this detail is there on the CD3000 too, but I have to listen harder to hear it on the CD3000 because it does not have a flat frequency response (IMO), and that other details are forced on the CD3000, it might mean you may or may not miss detail on the CD3000 that you hear easily on the HD650. I think the HD650 is fundamentally neutral, the CD3000 is very coloured - but HD650 is the more detailed headphone as a result.
结论，HD650比CD3000提供更多的细节。
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这里有一篇讲到HD650的可塑性，蛮有意思的。他说：“The HD650 has the power to transform itself, as a headphone, into nearly every sound signature imaginable.” 用不同的耳房，可以从HD650那里得到完全不同的声音。
可塑性，这也是我们对自己的期待啊。不是一次性的完成，而是不断尝试。我应该做一个老师呢？还是一个演奏家？还是一个软件工程师？如果早早就定型了多没劲啊。美国人平均一生要换10次工作，这方面我们也在不断进步。我老师对我说，老毛把中国人变成植物（不动，划地为牢，户口，城乡界线），老邓重新把人变成动物。
The HD650 as a rig builder
It leads me to wonder other things. Just how much is a wasting of an HD650 and how much is carrying it to it's full potential? In my opinion, so long as you like what you hear, then it is not a waste. The HD650 has the power to transform itself, as a headphone, into nearly every sound signature imaginable. When I first heard the HD650 balanced from the Dyanmight I thought it was an entirely different can all together, the strong and super smoth "meier" sound that I attributed to the can was utterly transformed into an anchor like sound with the precision of a Stealth bomber. Likewise, I've heard the HD650 sound like the most lush, beautiful impressionistic canvas imaginable on the MPX and a gorgeous landscape on the Zana Deux. The possibilities with this can are simply endless. So it begs the question? is putting it on smaller gear a waste? well, if that was the case, everyone but Sleestack would be wasting the HD650 because for just about every person, in every price range, the HD650 is a worthy can. So I'll say this now loud and clear, you won't be getting the most out of an HD650 with your ipod and thinkpad, but neither am I, and I have pretty good rig by most standards.
The HD650 is not just a can that you can build a rig around, it is a can that causes rigs to be built. you might not be entering in here and thinking that you will end up spending alot, but the HD650 is the crack of headphones. Once you notice one small improvement on amplification, then you'll want a better source, then better cables, then improvement after improvement, bigger amp after bigger amp and source after source. This is where the HD650 differs from most other cans. It sounds good with everything and keeps getting better. Most of the very high end cans (K1000, qualia, GS1000) sound horrible without good systems behind them, while lower end cans sound good for a little while and then reach a point of major diminishing returns (SR80, HD595). The HD650 has no such experience, it can sound good with both entry level gear and continue getting major performance boosts up to the highest levels of audiophilia. This is why so many of us who started the HD650 accelerate our rig building.
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palchiu兄，我在head-fi上看到一个贴子，贴主（PhilS）的情况和你一样是singlepower supra，他问是不是应该寄回去改成supra XLR的。呵呵，不会就是你吧？原贴在：http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=157409&highlight=singlepower+sds+hd650
结果head-fi大佬纷纷出动回答，都是Headphoneus Supremus级别的（我特别喜欢这两个词）
tom hankins认为非常值得，他是把自己的SDS改成XLR了，与非平衡版的差别巨大。
woodcans同意tom hankins的看法，他也把非平衡的改成平衡的了，他不再愿意听原机的声音了。
markmaxx认为HD650一定要XLR，差别很大，他推荐直接上SDS-XLR。
然后就是我在“巅峰神话”中引用的tom hankins的那个著名论断：比XX好，呵呵，不再重复了。
Hirsch也非常同意上面这几个人的观点，非常喜欢平衡版的HD650，但是（我完蛋了）他认为RS-1和QUALIA的平衡版改善更大。呵呵，这个说法如果成立，HD650的巅峰神话就破灭了。
braillediver非常支持改平衡，他的观点也很有意思：如果你喜欢原机的风格，改平衡会让你在原有的基础上更喜欢（和换机不同）。
Wmcmanus（版主）同意其他这些音响疯人院里的疯子的话，平衡版是一个崭新的层次，他原来拥有非平衡版的SDS，后来在佛罗里达的聚会上听到了SDS-XLR，他如遭电击，一下子懵掉了，犹如第一次听大奥的体验（这一段我以前也提到过，现在再看一下，这人是head-fi版主）。平衡版的650与非平衡的650的差别就像夜晚和白天。而且他认为supra xlr也非常好。
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崩溃。
本来我是花了好几天，汇集了HEAD-FI上一群资深（确实是非常资深的）耳烧友对HD650的比较另类变态的的玩法。他山之石，可以攻玉。原意并非让大家群起模仿。只是提供对HD650的另一面的理解。音响世界是一个广大的空间，其中有各种可能性的存在，也正是这样，才使我们这个世界丰富多样。哪怕当个花边来读读解闷也好啊。结果这个贴子，本来可以成为有意义的讨论和转换角度的思考，结果中途竟然变成有人酝酿结婚，到现在又变成脏话，令我万分绝望和沮丧。
[ 本帖最后由 傻猪猪 于 2008-12-27 14:39 编辑 ] |
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发表于 2008-12-27 14:55:57
