原帖由 pcear 于 2010-5-1 21:52 发表 http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/images/common/back.gif
看完第一感觉是weiss疯了，1w cd好不了多少素质的202卖5w，然后想想自己用过的solo和650，觉得1w的前端侍候这两个主大概到头了，再认真品味小白的听感，还是味道多于素质 ;P
在20w左右的音箱系统对比过dac2和1w+的 ...
呀？WEISS到底是味道型还是素质型？
http://www.hifi33.com/avforum/index.php?topic=67100501110516
i think Mr white has not expressed the difference between DAC202 and Solo clearly. Mr Zhu described the difference very well
原帖由 vincent58888 于 2010-5-2 03:46 发表 http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/images/common/back.gif
i think Mr white has not expressed the difference between DAC202 and Solo clearly. Mr Zhu described the difference very well
I do not agree to Mr Zhu's description of the difference between DAC202's headphone output and Solo's. He says Solo is more “自然宽厚”,while "自然" I understand people hear different "自然"，“宽厚”is not the word I would choose to describe Solo's strength over DAC202. I believe my description of the difference is more to the point.
原帖由 feifazhuce 于 2010-5-2 11:32 发表 http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/images/common/back.gif
其实稍微了解 的都知道，吹这个机器对销售其他器材又有何影响呢？5W块的解码器本来用户就少，耳机系统上又能走多少量，况且5W的机器选择面也多，肯舍得花5W买解码的人，也不可能是初哥吧。
所以要吹这个解码其 ...
花5w的初哥会越来越多的，何况很多老鸟也范戆的。
原帖由 pcear 于 2010-5-1 22:59 发表 http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/images/common/back.gif
是声望一套喇叭花演示系统，具体的型号没留意。但在我说的那几项素质上是让人眼前一亮的。
我觉得如果5w的dac在接1w cd做转盘的情况下不能让人眼前一亮，算比较失败。
在这个对比上，没有看到你对一些通常的素质 ...
:lol 还记得隔壁混混长老在他的丹拿声学M3大箱子系统上，SONY低端蓝光机+WEISS DAC2 ,让他出了5万级的音源ayre c-5xe.
http://audiophile.bbs.net/bbs/01/547873.html?sort=1&title=WEISS
[ 本帖最后由 lkpkp 于 2010-5-2 12:52 编辑 ]
Ayre本来就是只有一台前级在20w的价位上还可以，其他没啥东西了呀。
跟大家分享一下（但图已拍，出差在外没法上）apogee的2声道解码+火线接口（另购）效果是挺不错的。
主要是很好解决了跟电脑连接的问题。
我用apple的机子（imac或book pro）火线接apogee的rosette200，听24/96、24/192就不说了，关键是播抓的CD音轨效果都不错。
跟wadia 3200转盘+bryston BDA-1比较，赢不了原盘，但已是非常好的回放了（抓轨就用itune）
供大家参考。
又以WEISS DAC202的平衡输出，用平衡信号线接到德国SPL Auditor耳放，得到的效果非常不错。它的平衡输出，比起RCA输出，应该还是有所提高的。
比较SPL Auditor的耳机输出，和DAC202直推的效果，我必须说，还是Auditor出来的声音在素质方面占据上风，而且它胜出DAC202直推的地方，与SOLO的情况非常相似：透明度，质感鲜明度，低频下潜，包括高频的延伸，都胜于DAC202直推（HD650耳机）。DAC202直推的声音略朦和暖一些，音色“肉”一些，下沉一些。当然，在推低阻耳机时，DAC202的表现要好，实际试了天龙D2000和歌德RS1i，都觉得DAC202直推效果不错。特别是RS1i，在DAC202直推时，音色的醇厚感比用SPL推甚至更为好听。当然，一方面的原因是，SPL Auditor耳放的特性，驱动RS1和D2000这两副耳机，本不甚适合，D2000在它驱动下有些清瘦，RS1i在它驱动下则有些“歌德味道淡化”。声音暖、肉一些的DAC202耳机口，反倒比较适合这两副低阻耳机。
如果我有一台DAC202，给它选择一副直推耳机，我目前会选择RS1i。
[ 本帖最后由 小白 于 2010-5-2 15:12 编辑 ]
转一个此贴在R33讨论中的回复：Hello all Sunday morning,
＞How come this audiophile in Mainland China is so quick!?
The first 3 DAC202 pre-ordered users are all from China around November 2009. They have waited almost 6 months for delivery.
http://www.asiaweiss.com/main/?p=1591
We do not have any magazine review yet. The first 202 demo set is now in Audiotechnique magazine waiting for photo shooting for media propaganda.
Avbuzz posted a photo review. The photos are excellent and disclosed the internal structure of the new DAC and new analogue output stage, comparing to Minerva. The owner of this DAC202 Mr.Redman waited so long as he wanted to buy a Minerva, which is discontinued.
http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/201004/weiss/0.htm.
＞This Mainland audiophile only tested the DAC202 as an ordinary DAC but did not test it as a firewire DAC.
The testing methodology is incorrect. I asked this China DAC202 user too. When they compare the DAC202 with dCS Elgar, the dCS Elgar is locking at 24/88.2kHz and while the DAC202 is locking 48kHz. If they are playing CD, then the XLR lock of DAC202 should be 44.1kHz. It is not really valid test to me. They actually should hear strange noises, I wonder why.....
＞ he just bought the dac for 2 days, not yet run-in......
Of course Vash knew this. From all the first shipment owner reports, the DAC202 improves dramatically during run-in. We all guess that the Coil (similar to Medea) needs longer time to get in shape.
Which is better? Firewire, AES, SPDIF, TOSLINK?
Firewire is ONLY used for computer as source CAS. When using CAS, firewire connection is most straight forward and recommended approach because there is only 1 clock in the chain and that is the DAC202. (Same case applies to DAC2/Minerva/INT202). The DAC202 controls the binary data flows from computer to DAC. Many reviews use this great CAS master clock concept to explain as firewire is better connection than AES, SPDIF, is not entirely correct.
When using AES or SPDIF, the DAC202 can slave to the digital input, or from WordClock input. However it cannot work with internal sync hence the source is from CD/DVD/SACD transport.
While using Firewire, the DAC202 Sync can slave to any digital or WordClock input, or work as internal master sync. If you think the AES or Toslink is better as master sync, it is very flexible that to use firewire as data connection and select Sync from AES or Toslink. The timing will then be controlled by the AES/Toslink input.
Some audiophiles see Wordclock means using external clock on WLK input, but not another way around that WLK output can be master. The DAC202 WLK output can be used to sync with other transports (e.g. Studer A730) which has wordclock input. By this way, the DAC202 can work in master clock mode while Studer A730 slaves to the DAC202. This method is effective and applies on other company products such as Wadia and dCS master clock mode.
＞ any idea how practricle it is as a preamp?
It serves as digital preamp for digital sources including CAS.
＞ No good. 0DB is the best
We disagree. The digital preamp section is at least 32bit design. With a simple explanation, when you are listening to CD (16bit) you have another 16bit resolution. Each 1 bit resolution equals to 6dB, you can turn down the volume 16 x 6 = -96dB without touching the data. If you are playing 24bit source (CAS), then you have 8bits x 6 = -48dB without touching the data. And since we used properly dithered volume control, that should be a good volume knob. People in the professional audio industry actually using Weiss processors as volume up/down with better results in CD/DVD-A/SACD mastering.
Daniel wrote a paper with sound samples which I recommend: http://www.weiss-highend.ch/comp ... l_Level_Control.pdf
http://www.hifi33.com/avforum/index.php?topic=67100501110516
[ 本帖最后由 lkpkp 于 2010-5-2 15:17 编辑 ]
原帖由 小白 于 2010-5-2 14:41 发表 http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/images/common/back.gif
比较SPL Auditor的耳机输出，和DAC202直推的效果，我必须说，还是Auditor出来的声音在素质方面占据上风，而且它胜出DAC202直推的地方，与SOLO的情况非常相似：透明度，质感鲜明度，低频下潜，包括高频的延伸，都胜于 ...
如果我同样有5万预算
我会选择DAC2+010B（平衡驱动）
原帖由 lkpkp 于 2010-5-2 15:14 发表 http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/images/common/back.gif
转一个此贴在R33讨论中的回复：Hello all Sunday morning,
＞How come this audiophile in Mainland China is so quick!?
The first 3 DAC202 pre-ordered users are all from China around November 2009. They have waited almost 6 months for delivery.
http://www.asiaweiss.com/main/?p=1591
We do not have any magazine review yet. The first 202 demo set is now in Audiotechnique magazine waiting for photo shooting for media propaganda.
Avbuzz posted a photo review. The photos are excellent and disclosed the internal structure of the new DAC and new analogue output stage, comparing to Minerva. The owner of this DAC202 Mr.Redman waited so long as he wanted to buy a Minerva, which is discontinued.
http://www.avbuzz.com/audio-video/201004/weiss/0.htm.
＞This Mainland audiophile only tested the DAC202 as an ordinary DAC but did not test it as a firewire DAC.
The testing methodology is incorrect. I asked this China DAC202 user too. When they compare the DAC202 with dCS Elgar, the dCS Elgar is locking at 24/88.2kHz and while the DAC202 is locking 48kHz. If they are playing CD, then the XLR lock of DAC202 should be 44.1kHz. It is not really valid test to me. They actually should hear strange noises, I wonder why.....
＞ he just bought the dac for 2 days, not yet run-in......
Of course Vash knew this. From all the first shipment owner reports, the DAC202 improves dramatically during run-in. We all guess that the Coil (similar to Medea) needs longer time to get in shape.
Which is better? Firewire, AES, SPDIF, TOSLINK?
Firewire is ONLY used for computer as source CAS. When using CAS, firewire connection is most straight forward and recommended approach because there is only 1 clock in the chain and that is the DAC202. (Same case applies to DAC2/Minerva/INT202). The DAC202 controls the binary data flows from computer to DAC. Many reviews use this great CAS master clock concept to explain as firewire is better connection than AES, SPDIF, is not entirely correct.
When using AES or SPDIF, the DAC202 can slave to the digital input, or from WordClock input. However it cannot work with internal sync hence the source is from CD/DVD/SACD transport.
While using Firewire, the DAC202 Sync can slave to any digital or WordClock input, or work as internal master sync. If you think the AES or Toslink is better as master sync, it is very flexible that to use firewire as data connection and select Sync from AES or Toslink. The timing will then be controlled by the AES/Toslink input.
Some audiophiles see Wordclock means using external clock on WLK input, but not another way around that WLK output can be master. The DAC202 WLK output can be used to sync with other transports (e.g. Studer A730) which has wordclock input. By this way, the DAC202 can work in master clock mode while Studer A730 slaves to the DAC202. This method is effective and applies on other company products such as Wadia and dCS master clock mode.
＞ any idea how practricle it is as a preamp?
It serves as digital preamp for digital sources including CAS.
＞ No good. 0DB is the best
We disagree. The digital preamp section is at least 32bit design. With a simple explanation, when you are listening to CD (16bit) you have another 16bit resolution. Each 1 bit resolution equals to 6dB, you can turn down the volume 16 x 6 = -96dB without touching the data. If you are playing 24bit source (CAS), then you have 8bits x 6 = -48dB without touching the data. And since we used properly dithered volume control, that should be a good volume knob. People in the professional audio industry actually using Weiss processors as volume up/down with better results in CD/DVD-A/SACD mastering.
Daniel wrote a paper with sound samples which I recommend: http://www.weiss-highend.ch/comp ... l_Level_Control.pdf
照片仅仅是为了Photo taking，
实际测试的时候，我们都是P70 VUK 2倍升频输出，24bit/88.2KHz；
由解码提供时钟信号，同步转盘（转盘确认收到）。
原帖由 小白 于 2010-5-2 14:41 发表 http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/images/common/back.gif
比较SPL Auditor的耳机输出，和DAC202直推的效果，我必须说，还是Auditor出来的声音在素质方面占据上风，而且它胜出DAC202直推的地方，与SOLO的情况非常相似：透明度，质感鲜明度，低频下潜，包括高频的延伸，都胜于 ...
看图片音量调节的速度大，这个202蛮吃亏，毕竟是数字音量功能，对动态有些损失，音量过大的话最好调低电平输出
